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Errors
Posted by Mike Cabral on Tuesday, Jun. 28th, 2011 at 8:37 AM

I think errors have been discussed here some before.  I have one guy, -- OF Alex Rios, fld pct .987 -- who is making a ridiculous number of errors.  I haven't gone through my whole schedule to total them, but I am fairly sure he has already exceeded the 5 he made in MLB all of last  season, in 399 chances.  He had 3 in my last game, and I know I have seen at least a few others from him.

Not griping, just throwing it out there.  I am no code head, but will try and have a look at the fielding code and a few debugs.  Also figuring some of the more code-headed types may be able to make quicker work of the analysis.

Thanks, C-Ball

Readers Comments

Two more errors for Rios today.  We either have some anomoly going on, or he is fielding with a stick of butter in each hand!

Mike Cabral on Thursday, Jun. 30th, 2011 at 12:09 PM
 

There's a good chance this can be explained by anti-C-Ball code.   However, please do look at the debug to see if there's anything strange about the fielding pct use...like maybe it says:

"Rios fielding pct is .987, but with the "C-Ball deduction" he'll play at a .487 fielding pct"...

Allan Sellers on Thursday, Jun. 30th, 2011 at 1:53 PM
 

Is it possible to keep track of errors and/or fielding percentage in a table somewhere?  It'll be tough to keep going back into game logs to determine/track how errors are trending.

Rob Baptiste on Friday, Jul. 1st, 2011 at 7:15 AM
 

An update on errors...

1) As noted on Friday evening, I resolved some issues on how errors were reported.  The issue was that they were indicated in the boxscore, but the fly outs (and some 1b outs) were not being attached to the player's fielding record.

2) With the help of Chris McDougall (thanks Chris) I went through all the games prior to today and manually identified all errors and have updated those accordingly for each player, manually.

3) In performing step 2 I noticed a couple issues.

a) Some players didn't have a fielding record.  Those included: Carrasco (Fresno), Young (Toledo), and French (Eugene).  Those are now resolved.

b) One player, Alex Rios, is in the DB as two players and on two teams.   He is listed as Alex and Alexis...Alex is the one on Charlotte Stone Crabs, Alexis (with worse stats) was drafted by Tacoma later.  I will offer James the ability to get another player from the free agent pool (what's left) if he wants.  I've fixed the fielding issue for ALEX and tied that back to the player, so now C-Ball's player should perform better starting tomorrow.

c) We qualify players at a position with 20 or more games, but the fielding penalties were hurting players at 20g only, specifically Carlos Lee.  I've updated the code and gameplay article to correct this.  The penalty should now work only if they have 19 games or less for a specific fielding position.   I updated the gameplay article here: http://www.olmec.org/tmbl/gameplay.php?id=7

I've spent 5 hours on all this today and think I have everything now resolved (though it was a lot of manual work so there may be minor addition issues on some fielding records - email me if you spot an anomaly).  My apologies to the teams impacted, specifically Charlotte Stone Crabs and Toledo Mud Hens.  Both teams should now do a little better, especially Toledo who had the double-whammy of issues w/Young and Lee.

If you have questions you can comment here or email me.

Allan Sellers on Saturday, Jul. 2nd, 2011 at 6:11 PM
 

There we go...Rios has 13 errors in 61 chances!?  One of many reasons we suck!

Mike Cabral on Sunday, Jul. 3rd, 2011 at 2:38 PM
 

Agreed, this is one of the reasons and this one's my fault.   But should we have a separate thread to document all the other reasons?  :-)  (insert halo smily face here)

Allan Sellers on Sunday, Jul. 3rd, 2011 at 5:30 PM
 

Hi, Allan and/or Rob... there appears to be an issue with the O2P2 (out of position player) fielding percentage.  The rules state that there is a penalty.  I seem to recall the number being about .750 (unsure if static number or the percentage of that player's primary position fielding percentage).  

(a) Started Dayan Viciedo (3B) in RF - he was replaced by Joaquin Arias (2B)  2B is closer to RF but I hope that's not the reason.

(b) Joaquin Arias committed 4 errors, one for each attempt.  He had a fielding percentage of .000.  Seems to be a little rough of a penalty.  

Was this an intentional value or did something get lost in translation.  

Rob Baptiste on Wednesday, Aug. 24th, 2011 at 4:03 PM
 

Interesting. I'll take a look at the debug and try to remember how the code works if I get a chance before Al does.

Rob Peterson on Wednesday, Aug. 24th, 2011 at 8:54 PM
 

Looks like Al may have done something already.  Maybe it was just a "make-up" performance but if you look at tonight's DEBUG.  There were 6 fly outs to Arias in gameplay but none in debug!?  Ground ball to Rolen appears to have been logged as fly out to Arias for Youk's first at-bat.

Rob Baptiste on Thursday, Aug. 25th, 2011 at 8:01 AM
 

There's a couple of things at work on this one...

1) The gameplay can make this a little confusing as we do an error check first to see if there's an error.  If there isn't, then we determine what kind of out it is and assign it to a player.    So the current logic, as nonsensical as it sounds (and I agree that it needs a rework) might result in a) a check to see if the 2b made an error.  b) if no error then we determine if it was a K, ground out, or fly out.  The point of that is that the ball doesn't necessarily go back to where we did the error check.   This probably has a cascading effect on other changes though so it might not be something that will be trivial in terms of a change.  But, as I've said before...I'm all for reworking the gameplay to improve it, I just need folks who can dedicate some time to digging in to develop a better solution.

2) The problem with Arias is that he has an OF fielding row (MLB) where he has a fielding percentage of .000.  He played 1 game...but had no chances.  The code uses their MLB fielding percentage when OOP if its lower than the 'penalty pct'.   So in your case Arias' .000 gets used.

For next season we probably should go a little further in the draft as I see some teams exceeding their usage % earlier...or perhaps move from 60 to 65% usage.

For now, my recommendation is to keep Arias out of the OF.

Allan Sellers on Thursday, Aug. 25th, 2011 at 1:56 PM
 

Or wait...I get it now (see I can't remember much)...you don't have a choice...Arias just gets selected to play there due to your OF situation..

Do you want me to remove his fielding record for OF?  That's the best bandaid I can think of and since he didn't actually make a play in the OF I think its reasonable to remove it.

Allan Sellers on Thursday, Aug. 25th, 2011 at 3:16 PM
 

I have no other players that even played in the OF let alone got a chance.  I'm wondering on why I cannot choose which lead glove to put in the OF.  If all things considered, I'd like to not get a batting penalty too.

Fortunately, he is hitting around .333 but he may not be so lucky next time(s).  His fielding record for OF is useless so it may be removed.  Is the penalty 75% or .750?  If neither, I'd be forced to make a trade but if either I'd be okay with playing those infielders out there.

Incidentally, during a discussion with a co-worker... was thinking that the penalties should be position dependent based upon some overall or worst-case fielding percentage for that position.  I think an MLB (Major or Minor) could play the OF with reasonably the same result as a Manny Ramirez (due to laziness by the way - he's not super slow, has [well had] a great arm and actually can get a read on the ball).  Playing SS on the other hand, would be more difficult - especially if the fielder happens to throw lefty.

Rob Baptiste on Thursday, Aug. 25th, 2011 at 5:17 PM
 

 

Originally when we did this we decided to be very punitive on teams that ran out of players at a certain position.

The thought process was that if we allowed teams to draft without regard to position, then we'd have:

a) teams that couldn't meet minimums

b) a lot of bad defense

c) a lot of 1b playing other infield spots with some teams who didn't have a full time 1b or couldn't cobble one together.

So those concepts went hand in hand: don't allow teams to draft without regard for position and make it hard on teams that run out of players at a position.

Those points we can debate.   There are probably better ways to do it, I'd be open to hearing them.

As part of that we decided to make it tough to play a player at a position they never played at.  So when you put a player in the OF and he never played there, the code then tries to find someone else who did and puts them there.

I've removed the Arias row for OF.   So he will field at .750 when he next appears in the OF.

I fully agree on the concept of how players will play OOP differently.   

I think we need to have some discussion first on if we allow it and with what restrictions

I mean we could just drop the rule about how strict we are around OOP.  Then we wouldn't have any need to track position usage in the draft, just an overall total or something.

But we may end up with scenarios where teams are short at a position (because those players were taken for their hitting prowess).

At the end of the day is that a better approach than the one we have now?  I'm not sure.

Neither seems ideal to me.  

There's just a lot of related elements here that would change if a different approach was taken.  That can happen.   We just need to have one or two people take ownership of the topic, get the discussion going, and come up with something better.

Allan Sellers on Thursday, Aug. 25th, 2011 at 5:49 PM
 

I agree with being penalized.  I am thinking that the penalty could either be flat by position or a percentage based upon position AND that player's fielding percentage (multiplied).  An OOP player would never be better than any player if his [primary position fiedling] percentage was multiplied by the "worst" fieling percentage at the position he is playing in the game.  It'd be punitive and its factor would be relative to how good or poor a defensive player he is. 

I cleared the OF TPA needed by 50 and had 4 OF but I did not realize how much of those TPAs were accounted for by Braun.  I figured that Holliday misses time every year and couldn't possibly be above 600 TPA.  Once the 60% math was done on each player it left no [imaginary*] wiggle room whild would've been 50/3*0.6 = 10 TPA per slot or 5 per each backup (*assumes Braun and/or Holliday were right around 600). Poor calculation is NOT a reason to allow any kind of pass on the penalty as I am sure some would purposely take the best available hitters once no longer required to fill the TPA requirement (kind of what I did but I thought I was covered). Please keep the Usage% and OOP Penalty but remove the "that position isn't elgible to play there" code as baseball itself just doesn't do that.  I am even in favor of allowing position players pitch rather than letting the last available pitcher get beat up.

Rob Baptiste on Thursday, Aug. 25th, 2011 at 10:18 PM