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I've watched all three Augustana games so far, though last night's was after I woke up for the toilet and was nearing the end of the second set. As mentioned in the blog Augie use two Setters and two Right Sides (though the commentator for the first game, which I've just watched the start of, referred to Carlson as an Outside Hitter) along with a Libero, two Outside Hitters and two Middle Blockers. Al explains in the Blog how a Setter will come on to serve replacing a Right Side and a Right Side will replace the Setter going off - this is to have a Setter in the back row only.. For the first game the starters were, in serve order, Moreano (OH), Schultz (MB - Max goes off) , Carlson (RS except he didnt serve as Schaefer came on for him), Bolen (OH), Sellers(L) (Heater MB came on to serve when Max would move to the front row) and Degnan (S) (except McNelis RS comes on when Schaefer S does).
If you watch a game you see players changing positions all the time so why does it matter that the Setter is in the back row as Al mentions. In TMVL on a Pass 1 or 2 the Setter can set to either OH or the RS no matter where they are. On a Pass 3, if in the back row he can pick out any of the front three players or the back row OH. If in the front row he can pick himself to do a setter dump, either of the front row OH/MB or the better back row OH/RS. But that's TMVL - in a real game surely he can pass to anyone?
Well he can but there's this rule where back row players are not allowed to attack the ball if they are across the "attack line" and the ball is above the net. The net is near enough eight foot high and the attack line is three metres from the net (the half court is nine metres long). Attacking from more than three metres away is not ideal nor is not being able to hit the ball down near the net. So to have a choice of three attackers, making it harder to block, you need the Setter in the back row.
The other thing that can be kind of confusing is the fact that when the Setter is serving (position I in TMVL) the Right Side is at Position IV (the left side at the net) so why is he called a Right Side? When the ball is served players have rules about where thay can stand. The server can serve from any position behind the base line. For the front row the middle player (III in TMVL) can't stand to the right of the front right player (II) or to the left of the front left player (IV). He also can't stand behind (nearer the baseline) than the back middle player (VI) Similarly on the left and right sides. As soon as the ball is served, and based on timing I'd say tossed in the air, players can switch positions. For the receiving side I believe it's when the ball has crossed the net.
What you will notice if the front three players standing close together at the net. When Degnan served, Carlson was camera side and behind the other two, Moreano on the crowd side and Schultz in the middle but almost in single file. Or serve Carlson drifts to the Right Side and Moreano to the left.
Readers Comments
Steve, loads of astute observations here. As you mentioned, it's wise to keep the setter in the back row so you have three taller players in the front who can attack and block. I also think it may be easier for the setter to see the attacking options from the back row, although when a good setter sets from the front, he or she can set to multiple spots on the floor--middle, outside, and even behind him- or herself--with essentially the same initial motion. This keeps the other team's blockers guessing about where the attack will come from.
I learned while playing high school volleyball that one risk for setters who play both in the front and back rows is that they might come up to the net to set and then forget that they started the point in the back row. As a result, we inadvertently deployed a "quadro-block"--four players attempting to block an attack. That's definitely illegal; only your three front row players can attack or block.
Speaking of positioning, players on both sides are permitted to move once the server strikes the ball.
You hit the ball over the net then the players rotate, are you both saying that is incorrect???
Players have their positions before the serve. In TMVL many teams have S #1, OH #2, MB #3, RS #4, OH #5 and MB #6 (L). When I played at school we didn't have dedicated positons. Whoever was at #3 was the setter, #2 and #4 the attackers. Rotate and you get a new setter.
In "proper" games, when you are serving, the 3 front men stand together with #4 slightly to the left of #3, and #2 slightly to the right of #3. If you don't it's a violation and costs you a point. When the ball is served the three front men move with the RS going to the right and the OH to the left (mostly if not always). So at first I'm watching a game and I know Carlson (RS) is at #4 because Degnan (S with hair tied up so easy to recognise) is serving. But he ends up attacking from #2 so I started watching what happens to the players rather than ball watching.
In the Concordia Wisconsin game the commentator mentioned Concordia having 5 back men when Bolen served. The front men wouldn't be allowed to stand nearer the base line than their corresponding back man.
Not sure if I completely understand the question. But, what we're talking about--and what I think your question is referring to--is where the players are required to stand before the point begins, and what they're allowed to do after the point begins. As Steve said, players have to occupy their present spot in the rotation prior to the beginning of the point. But once the server strikes the ball to begin the point, any player can move anywhere on the court for the duration of the point (with restrictions on who can attack the ball and from where). Steve was saying that players who plan to move after the beginning of a point will bunch together so they can quickly get to where they want to be.
Thanks Steve for the post and Jason for the follow-up. Lots of good details there and great observations (thanks Steve). And I don't think I knew you played high school volleyball Jason, that's very coole!
Also, you can probably see why Max and I said at the beginning:
- Same lineup for all sets
- No subs (the L/MB swap is not considered a substitution)
- No subs so no use of 2 setters
We may get to some of that at some point (could be interesting) but it also requires a rethink on the FIT aspect.
Augie lost in 5 exciting sets tonight (my heart rate has finally come down).
My brag moment despite the loss are these two screenshots:
Augie record book before tonight...
My question was in jest, I was trying to imply volleyball was simple. Apologies.
About the position before the server is strikes the ball. Is this one of the things that makes volleyball interesting and add it some tactical choices, or is it more an disturbing thing?
John, I apologize for taking you seriously on the Internet.
Al, if I had played high school volleyball just a few years later, I would have been a libero. As it was, the libero didn't yet exist, so I was a "defensive specialist." I served and played in the back row and usually subbed out for an attacker when I rotated into the front row. In other words, I was too short/couldn't jump high enough to be an effective attacker, although I was decent at dinking and wiping the block when I had to play in the front. Mike, on the other hand, was, as you may already know, a very good outside hitter.
Also, congrats to Max on the oustanding performance. That's an eye-popping number of digs.
Jason: That's cool that you played, yeah, too bad Libero wasn't in place yet.
Can anyone spot a couple of oddities in Max's statsheet from tonight?
You are absolutely right Steve. Since St. Ambrose is an NAIA team they let him serve (as their libero could serve).
And the kill was just the other team letting the ball hit the ground and no one moving to it. It was awesome!
There's a slight update to last Saturday's digs post...
I fell asleep trying to watch this but did see an amazing save by Max in the first set with the scores around 7-7 that led to an Augie point.
Another win for Augie - I think that makes them.6-1 on the season. Is this going to be their best ever season or is the future opposition much tougher?
Thanks for watching Steve!!
With the win on Sunday, Augie is 7-1. Their best start ever! They play 24 matches this season. The most wins ever has been 12 (last season and two other times).
They play 14 matches then hit conference play. Conference play (10 matches) is much harder. For D-III our conference has had a team that won 2 of the 3 conference titles and another that was 2nd place last season. The other (not one of those two) team that's really good, Loras, may be better than the best teams (Carthage and North Central) from the past 3 seasons.
So, yes, the future opponents are much tougher, but YES, this will be their best team/finish ever. If I was betting money I think 16-8 is likely.